網路城邦
回本城市首頁 時事論壇
市長:胡卜凱  副市長:
加入本城市推薦本城市加入我的最愛訂閱最新文章
udn城市政治社會政治時事【時事論壇】城市/討論區/
討論區保衛釣魚台 字體:
看回應文章  上一個討論主題 回文章列表 下一個討論主題
關於 自覺運動 的討論 -- Yin Tieh-lin 等
 瀏覽872|回應1推薦0

胡卜凱
等級:8
留言加入好友

以下是全球保釣聯盟籌備會的內部書信討論。由於國外朋友有中打的技術問題,所以中英夾雜。以下依先後秩序發表。

Yin Tieh-lin

What Hu said is correct. I happened  to be in Tai Da at the time when so called "self-awakening movement" occurred. This was actually only an activity among a small number of students following the fashion of responging to the foreign student's farewell message. It died quickly. Bao-diao movement is a movement to protect our country's territory, national dignity, still in today having its significance and momentum to impact the future. There is no relation between them at all, and no comparison at all. 

胡卜凱

From my perspective I'll say C. Y. and T. L. are correct to certain extent. We are indeed closer to the Sino-Japan war, and some of us were nationalistic and concerned with the social issues at large in our under graduate student days. However, this was not a general phenomenon.

I don't doubt that among those that are a few years younger than us, or those that were not interested in the social events at that time, there was an eye-opening, if not "awakening", effect by the "Self-Awakening" event or incident. It may not be a general movement, but it did stir up a few latent souls here and there. We need to recall what a barren environment Taiwan was during the 60's (post-"Free China" for instance), and how students in general were "lost" at that time.  Although I was not enlightened by it, I for one was moved by the article to think about the issues it has raised and the implication and consequence of apathy in general.

Mr. Liu who formed the "New Hope" Magazine as a response to that event was and is as idealistic as most of us participated in the Bao_Diao. And the magazine sure had its effect on some, albeit a small group of, students then.  If it were not banned by the university administration within two years of its inception, I expect it would have exerted more influences.

So it may have some relevance. As for the direct effect on Bao-Diao, I agree with the assessment of C. Y. and T. L.. 

Vickie Liu Chen

It was nice to meet so many new friends in Taiwan this time. I think protecting TYT has some hope if it is still alive after more than 30 years. 

I totally agree with Chen-Yu and Tieh Yin, as I expressed to Chao-Wei, the "self-awakening event" did not have any link to TYT movement in my opinion.

This current "collecting tears" event, I do not know what is the underline issue or message and what they are trying to accomplish.

Sorry I can only read Chinese version but can not reply by Chinese.

張釗維

Reagrding the news of younger generation's "movement", it looks like the "self-awakening event" 40 years ago.

Someone had criticised the "self-awakening event" as "innocent", I guess the same criticism would be raised for this current "collecting tears" event.

However, under current circumstances, I would propose that it's a chance for connectingg the 2 different generations, so that the history of Taiwan's youth movement could have a better continuity instead of being fragmented.

胡承渝

我不知道誰說自覺運動innocent,也不知道是用褒的意義﹕率直、天真,還是貶的意義﹕頭腦簡單。但我認為不論那一個意義,innocence都不是自覺運動失敗的原因。學生運動一定會帶有innocence的成分,才會對大家習以為常的不公平現象,提出抗議。世故的學生是不會參加學生運動的,即使參加,其目的也是想從中謀取個人的利益或聲望。

我認為自覺運動沒有廣大作用的原因,是完全脫離群眾。我提到他們組織的社團,只有成績好的學生才能加入。不知這是參與者自己的想法,還是救國團用來控制運動的手段。不論什麼原因,這就註定了這運動無法發展。卜凱兄提到 Mr. Liu 的 《New Hope》,我想是劉大任吧?我在大學時,總覺得這群精英和我離得太遠,因為他們口中的哲學名詞、各種主義不是我這種凡夫俗子所能瞭解的。

胡卜凱

劉大任1960台大政治系畢業,我講的是劉容生,和我同班,1966台大物理系畢業。 

我想自覺運動應分成兩個來談,一是官方支持的,但後來很快就收手。 一是學生自發的,但在當時的環境下,成功的機率可說近於零。因為如果有"群眾",救國團就會來關切,所以不可能有"群眾"。但即使曇花一現,仍有其作用,只是程度問題。也許譽孚兄可做一問卷調查,看看有多少人認為自己曾受自覺運動影響或被它"啟發"。

 

 

2003-12-18,http://www.fokas.com.tw/news1/newslist.php?id=400

原載:



本文於 修改第 1 次
回應 回應給此人 推薦文章 列印 加入我的文摘

引用
引用網址:https://city.udn.com/forum/trackback.jsp?no=2976&aid=2837899
 回應文章
談 自覺運動 和 保釣運動 -- 胡承渝
推薦0


胡卜凱
等級:8
留言加入好友

 

作者:胡承渝

我沒有參加「自覺運動」,不過那時我正好在台大,所以對它略有所知。我的意見是﹕那不是一個「運動」,至少不是我們現在所想的「運動」。我也不認為﹕「自覺運動在將近十年之後,間接點燃了釣運的火花」。當然這只是一個旁觀者的想法,希望自覺運動的參與者及研究者指教。

自覺運動的導火線,是一位外籍留學生離開台灣時,在《中央日報》上,以狄仁華的筆名,發表了一篇臨別贈言,批評台灣的學生沒有公德心。他舉的例子都很平實,也不是第一次提出。如果那篇文章是中國人所寫,大概不會得到多少注意。但是由於作者的外籍身分,在校園內引起討論。他的批評得到大部分討論者的認同。

國民黨最初只是在旁觀察,沒有介入(至少沒有公開介入)。但當參與者提出「自覺運動」的名稱,準備組織社團時,救國團就出面主導了這個「運動」。因為我沒有參加,我不知道參與者當時的決策。但是從他們的行動看來,他們並沒有要搞成一個運動的想法。他們組織的社團,並不歡迎群眾參加,只有成績好的學生才有資格加入(好像規定每班的前幾名)。於是成了一個像《融融社》一樣的「精英」團體,不過《融融社》以家庭社會地位為標準,這個社團則以學校成績為標準。

可想而知,幾個月後,這個「運動」就完全消失了。只有台大佈告欄的成績單上蓋著「自覺」的圖章(因為有人不願別人看到自己的成績,會撕成績單),提醒大家曾經有過這麼一個「運動」。

自覺運動和釣魚台運動大概隔了七年,我不知道兩者有什麼關聯。釣魚台運動初期的動力是民族主義,後來則有社會主義的影響。這些都和狄仁華文章裏提出的事體無關,也和當時校園內討論的議題無關。我們那一代(以台灣術語來說,就是二、三年級生),對鴉片戰爭以來中國受到的屈辱,感觸仍然深刻,八年抗戰及日人據台所造成的痛苦,離我們還不太遠。所以能把釣魚台事件和帝國主義聯在一起,激起大家的熱情。自覺運動對當時的學生並沒有什麼影響,所以我認為它並沒有為保釣運動留下什麼火種。 

2003-12-18,http://www.fokas.com.tw/news1/newslist.php?id=397

 

原載:



本文於 修改第 1 次
回應 回應給此人 推薦文章 列印 加入我的文摘
引用網址:https://city.udn.com/forum/trackback.jsp?no=2976&aid=2837904